南フランスのCastellar町の、スイスのHSBC銀行の元従業員のHerve Falcianiの自宅で、スイスの秘密銀行口座で脱税した130'000人の名前の情報を発見したフランスの検察官のEric de Montgolfierの証言、面談記事
ENTREVISTA
“Habría que cerrar los bancos suizos si mantienen el secreto bancario”
Decenas de miles de evasores fiscales, muchos españoles, dormirían tranquilos si Éric de Montgolfier hubiera mirado hacia otro lado
Pero este fiscal francés decidió investigar a fondo la ‘lista Falciani’ y ha descubierto el mayor fraude fiscal en la historia reciente de la Unión Europea
José María Irujo 6 MAY 2013 - 00:00 CET
INTERVIEW
"We have to close the Swiss banks by maintaining banking secrecy"
Tens of thousands of tax evaders, many Spanish, would sleep reassured if Éric de Montgolfier had looked the other way
But this French prosecutor decided to thoroughly investigate the 'listing Falciani' and discovered the largest tax fraud in the recent history of the European Union
José María Irujo 6 MAY 2013 - 00:00 CET
The prosecutor Eric de Montgolfier has risen at three in the morning in Bourges, central France, has traveled to Paris to catch a flight to Madrid as the nine o'clock spot awaits his turn in San Fernando de Henares to testify as a witness in the extradition hearing of Hervé Falciani, the former employee of HSBC Geneva that gripped most precious treasure of this entity: 130,000 secret accounts of tax evaders, at least 4,000 Spanish. His testimony is key because this man of 65, married to a lawyer and father of three daughters, was the person who in 2010 discovered Falciani's house in Castellar, a village in the Cote d'Azur (France), encrypted computer files that have enabled the various governments hunting tax evaders largest in the history of the European Union. A complex investigation that began in solitary and has further bolstered his reputation as a white knight, independent prosecutor acting without permission, says what he thinks and uncomfortable to bankers, politicians and justice ministers of successive French governments.
Come to the prosecution riding his bike, looks gentle and serene, but has sat on the bench to a colorful cast of characters list of finance and French politics. Montgolfier accused Bernard Tapie, former minister, and former finance football club Olympique de Marseille (OM), of trying to buy in 1993 a match against Valenciennes. Almost all the former directors of OM, European champion in 1993, was sentenced by a court to imprisonment. Tapie was called "bonkers" and he added: "Without this matter, would a judge Montgolfier unknown, sinister. If after 25 year career all he has done is be a prosecutor in Valenciennes, is that there must be ... ".
He was wrong. The prosecutor's credibility grew at the same rate as did the reputation of the controversial businessman, involved in successive scandals. During the ten years he spent as chief prosecutor of Nice city council members investigated and denounced the glassy relationships of some of his fellow judiciary with local authorities.
A prosecutor may questions - what to tardo or do what you believe "
Montgolfier attends the meeting with the journalist, in a downtown hotel in Madrid, after testifying before the National Court judges who decide the future of the enigmatic Falciani, the exinformático HSBC has made this bank in the most difficult of its history. The prosecutor cross wearing a navy jacket, shirt a softer tone with white stripes, burgundy tie, gray trousers and brown shoes English style. There seems tired despite intense already been ten hours since dawn at his home in Bourges, the historic and peaceful French city of 100,000 inhabitants, their ultimate destination in the Court of Appeal, an oasis compared to the hurricane that rose in the Nice effervescent.
QUESTION: Have you talked to Falciani?
ANSWER: He greeted me and I did not recognize. [The former employee of HSBC came into view with wig and makeup rimmed glasses].
Q: How was your statement?
A: Well, I'm alive [smiles]. It's the first time I'm Spanish court. Here the judgments are different.
Q: Were you surprised that Falciani call him as a witness?
A: No, because I am one of those who can say what his role in the discovery of documents and the help they have provided.
Q: Do you think the future of Falciani is partly in your hands?
A: First, it depends on the judges. I brought some elements but Falciani life will not end in Spanish courts. He has betrayed the interests of a very large bank and will have trouble finding work in the sector. I am a witness and nothing more ... In Spain prompted a moral attitude. When I learned he had been arrested here for a request for extradition from Switzerland, I told myself that it would be unfair to be delivered.
Q: Is it true that without their help it would not have been able to recover the secret information of HSBC?
A: It would have been much more complicated. It helped us get into the computer because it was encrypted. There were parts that we would not have found. Falciani we provided them. Your help was precious.
The flag independence
Éric de Montgolfier (Lyon, 1946) studied at the University of Paris II. Descendant of the Montgolfier brothers first inventors of balloons, he was assigned to the Ministry of Justice in Paris, where he researched various economic and financial cases. He gained the sympathy of the public for their strong stand against the political and economic powers. One daughter is studying to judge.
Members of the French judiciary recognize that this unique man has achieved with his work and public statements that various sectors of French society regain their confidence in justice. Its independence and complicity with the media have helped to cultivate his image as rebellious tax. Met endurance record in its chief prosecutor of Nice, where he served for a decade. Upstairs in a picture of 1993, in the case Valenciennes.
Q: What do you think Falciani? Does it seem more a hero or a thief, as claimed by the Swiss authorities?
A. I know how I have to consider it. At first I said have a messianic temperament, which has something to offer the world plunged into a financial crisis. I'm not sure it's that simple. There is surely a part true, but there are gray areas before being arrested in Nice. I do not know what he did, I wanted to do. There are episodes in its route that seem questionable.
Q: Can I speak to a dark part?
A: Before being arrested in France there is an episode in Lebanon who do not really know what it consisted. I thought I understood that tried to sell [the information] to a Lebanese bank rejected the offer. Yes, there are some gray areas in this story. In France tried to sell. If proposed elsewhere, do not know. If you have obtained money would not be in the financial position in which it seems to be today. His lawyers say it is difficult.
Q: When I asked the Swiss authorities a record, not informed of what was hidden in the house of Falciani.
A: We thought it was a request banal. Seeing that assist federal prosecutor, thought that came on vacation because Nice is a place with sunshine. Later we learned, not Switzerland, but Falciani, which had. The Swiss were not clear to us.
Q: What did you think when the Gendarmerie that you had in your possession the names of 130,000 tax evaders?
A: I thought it was an issue too large and could not treat it all [only investigated individuals accounts of over one million euros]. It is one of the largest tax evasion history. The President has announced the creation of the PNA. Seeing it from a distance, I thought it would have been better to have it before.
Q: Did you have any pressure or hint of French Government to give back those files without investigating?
A: There are two solutions to a prosecutor: ask the minister what to do or what to believe. I did not ask the minister, opened the investigation without asking your opinion. I do not know if I would have said yes or no. I knew I had to carry out this research. No pressure. [The case eventually turned over to the Attorney Montgolfier Paris and stayed with the part of Nice].
P: And pressure from banks or other institutions?
A: The leaders of the HSBC did not want us to investigate the accounts. And Switzerland was also against. Many Swiss said you have no right ... the federal prosecutor [Swiss] received nasty emails, undiplomatic, but, well, that's not important.
Q: What has been the most difficult of his research?
A: The feeling of ignorance. We chose criteria for sorting this mass of information on paper would have filled the cars of a train, but did not know if we were leaving out important things. And when we have a list of 8,600 French names, does not mean that through trust companies or French no more involved. And the same happens in Spain. I do not think Spain have all there, must have the list of Spanish holders, but maybe in the French list is hidden Spanish, or behind societies that remain to be investigated.
Q: A train with the names of many countries evaders.
A: For a case like this, with so many countries involved, there should be a European Public Prosecutor. I think it would be feasible. There are many involved, not just European, Canadian, U.S. and even Arab countries. Each country should take care of what concerns him. Is it justified that France would keep the information and circulate to the affected countries. The prosecutors also sent Italian and German. There have been many countries that have requested, and do not understand why. So I called a friend in Belgium and told him I should care, but I did not get any request.
Q: How did it feel to get their hands on the secret accounts of so many people?
A: It is a nice case. In the life of a prosecutor there are many small things, accidents, thefts, events. It gives the impression that you're really going to be helpful.
Q: I imagine that will be a sensation similar to that of a journalist when he discovers a great story and believes that will serve for something.
A: Sure! Sure! [Smiles]. We were fascinated by the importance of the case, but at the same time we said: attention! It has to be a real case. As in journalism, make no mistake. I remember the false case which involved the president Nicolas Sarkozy. And I said carefully, make sure that this is true.
Q: Almost all cases of corruption lead to offshore accounts, often in territories under the British flag. Why do you think that this system survives as unjust and scandalous?
A: I'm not sure that the English have a very European fiber. His vision is very egocentric. I'm surprised that European countries do not commit to anything that was against the interests of others. Banks are an item that weighs heavily on the economy of a country. In Switzerland, banks would have to close if kept in secrecy. The problem is why they replace. It is as if we told some South American States to stop growing drugs. If we ask you to give up that part of the economy, why replace it. We should give them another way to survive.
In the banking system, rather than the secrets, so there is darkness "
Q: Hollande says he is determined to combat tax havens. Do you believe in this statement of intent?
A: [laughs]. Is the President! The crisis in France is so big it takes to do something. The problem is that in a while I find that things work out for spikes. Today we talk about corruption, tax fraud, HSBC. He starts talking, up, up, up, and suddenly puff, no more, no more talk. I would not stop talking about something as important as this. Institutions should have real strength, we must provide resources and put forward people who have wanted to fulfill his task. We must create organisms that truly serve to fight against corruption. And there the story makes me more suspicious.
Q: Socialist Finance Minister Jérôme Cahuzac recently removed to hide a Swiss account, and the bank Reyl are the latest scandals of the French political class. Do you hide in this entity most shameful secrets of French personalities?
R: [smiles]. Secrets are everywhere but in the banking system, more secrets, no gloom. We see it in our country, which today ask our politicians what their heritage and most do not want to give. I'm willing to say what I have because I know where it comes from. When someone says I can not say what I have, I suspect that that person may be hiding something. I'm a prosecutor. It is outrageous to have money if you can explain their origin.
Q: You are a prosecutor uncomfortable for the authorities. Surely the mayor and the prefect of Nice miss him.
A: I was not aware that the public authorities were not comfortable with me [smiles]. A prosecutor is not to do favors, but to fight crime and remind each other and you have to respect the law.
Q: What has been the hardest moment of your career?
R: [Silence]. Every time I've seen that the injuries affecting mine, but other than that there have been no more problems, on the contrary, some people have asked me a favor, have given me the strength to resist them. Under pressure, or give in and it's hard to look at yourself, or resist and are even stronger.
Q: Does your work has affected many times to yours?
A: Quite a few, but they were ready. Or bow your head, and if the crouch once, the crouching forever or you tell yourself that you have a duty you have chosen. It is not a question of courage, but of honesty.
Q: Some French media call him 'white knight'. Do not you think that all judges and prosecutors should be?
A: You are limited to be judges or prosecutors would be fine. If we propose to be white knights, you say no, it's too hard for me. You have to ask them what they swore they would do: justice. In my case is just a definition media. I know many judges who do not qualify for white knights, but are rigorous. And that is all that should be asked. As a young magistrate, I said slowly, and have great features, but if you start to relax, you relax all the time. A prosecutor told me one day talking about my future: "Make cool and all will be well." I indicated that prostituting justice had every chance to reach high office. It is very interesting ... [laughs].
Q: But citizens generally do not trust justice.
R: Justice is scary, do not know made accessible. It persists when the judges speak an incomprehensible language. Justice does not satisfy anyone. Distrust of justice seems normal. Distrust also because we do not know. Sometimes judges are not as good as we would like. It's a set of things that explain why justice is underappreciated. We admire doctors who saved us, but not to kill you. And we are not necessarily on the good side.
Q: Sometimes accuse him of talking too much.
A: If citizens do not like justice, the best thing you can do is to explain. We can not complain about that do not like us if you do not bother to expose what we are and what we can do.
Q: In some ways you remind me of Judge Baltasar Garzón, a man who fought terrorism and corruption. Expelled for a finished eavesdropping lawyers in prison. You also accused of violating freedom of a detainee.
A: I was acquitted. Being in front of a court to answer for your actions is nothing outrageous. I would have been if I had been convicted. I have led many people punish not to accept the system judge me me. When I came to testify said is an experience and I wish that all judges of France live. I do not think anyone amused. [Laughs]. Garzón's case shows that if bother the powerful, we must be rigorous in the extreme, and yet we're not sure. You can not have the slightest fault. You previously used the term white knight is better fox. When I say I'm a media magistrate, I say thank goodness. If you have the will to do something and you do it in the shade, you run the risk of forcing sometimes a little law.
Q: I have a few months to retire. I do not see walking his bike. Have you thought about entering politics?
R: [Surprised face]. Never! Never! I've been asked several times. They say I'm preparing my application, but no, I could not do it. I spent my time telling people what they should do, reminding the law, to transform into: how are you?, Anything I can do for you? No, I could not do it. I am literally incapable. Out of justice and politics there are plenty of things you can do: write, passionate. There are many things, but not politics.
Q: What about your bike?
A: I can not go to the prosecutor on my bike. Forty-eight hours after arriving at Bourges had robbed me. [Laughs]. And the police have not managed to find it.
Q: Tell me the best of Bourges and worst of Nice for a prosecutor.
A: The best thing is the peace provincial Bourges, a little Alsatian. Worst of Nice: you never know who's talking. Sometimes you talk to people you have confidence, though it's hard ... But I have friends in Nice. [Laughs].
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