スペインの不良債権(貸し倒れ)で破綻し国有化されたBankia銀行の新頭取のJose Ignacio Goirigolzarri(Bilbao, 1954)の面談記事
JOSÉ IGNACIO GOIRIGOLZARRI Presidente de Bankia
“No se ha rescatado a los banqueros, sino a los depositantes”
El presidente de Bankia asegura que no requiere más capital público, insiste en que el Estado podrá recuperar las ayudas y admite que los gestores de algunas cajas son los responsables de la crisis.
M. JIMÉNEZ / Í. DE BARRÓN Madrid 25 MAY 2013 - 18:56 CET
JOSE IGNACIO GOIRIGOLZARRI President of Bankia
"Not bailed out the bankers but to depositors"
Bankia President ensures that public capital does not require further insists that the State may recover the aid and admits that some boxes managers are responsible for the crisis.
M. JIMENEZ / Í. OF BARRON Madrid 25 MAY 2013 - 18:56 CET
Mr. Goirigolzarri (Bilbao, 1954) occupies the same office that his predecessors Miguel Blesa and Rodrigo Rato, both now charged. It flies Madrid conservatory from a leaning tower. Talk quiet sure what it says and in a tone of humility. Is more than two hours without a call without interruption. One year after the second major European bank failure, the manager does not hide his pride that Bankia is "a bank deposit, which now needs to be profitable", after an injection of 22.424 million by the state.
Ensures regret not having accepted the challenge to rescue Bankia and insistently repeated that those who run the organization "are only managers with the mission of the shareholder, the State, retrieve the most from your investment." Does not like to speak ill of his predecessors, but does not hide that the perpetrators of this crisis "are the managers of the entities that no longer exist."
Question. What is your assessment of the first year in Bankia?
Answer. When I arrived, not having, the bank had no audited accounts. Now, after a great effort from all of us in Bankia, has approved a transformation plan for Europe, a capitalization process that ends next week, strong balance and a change of strong corporate governance. The challenge is to convert the solid bank have profitable. If a year ago someone had told me that we would be where we have now arrived, had signed it, but the party has just started and we have a way that we know is long and difficult.
"When I arrived, not having, in Bankia there were no audited accounts"
P. Will you need more capital?
R. No, it is discarded. We generate capital organically with our business thanks to revenue and reducing risk assets. We have a very strong capital position and we must generate profit to pay dividends.
P. But it is harder to generate profit in this environment ...
R. Maintain the goals to win this year 800 million and 1,200 million by the end of 2015. The environment is complex, but Bankia has a steady income plan until 2015 and a sharp reduction in costs.
P. The preferred injuries have left large customers.
R. That's true, but it removes a requirement in Europe. The arbitration will be very positive. It is clear that many customers are disappointed and consider. Without the problem of senior and subordinated, the Bankia recovery plan would be easier, because it would avoid this commercial damage.
P. Have you hit the tanks?
R. Without a doubt.
P. Will he return Bankia to sell similar products?
R. Our principles are transparency, customer proximity and integrity in management, and we are going to jump.
P. Novagalicia apologized for the sale of preferred stock. Did Bankia raised?
"We know that many customers are disappointed by the preferred"
R. We did an advertising campaign admitting mistakes. What we had to say we have already said.
P. But not apologize ...
R. He admitted mistakes.
P. Is that all?
R. Terminology is that everyone will want to give things. The admission of mistakes by a financial institution is powerful enough.
P. Are they losing deposits off the bench without assistance?
R. We had a major share drop May to August or September, as it began to stabilize in November and in March we have maintained stable balance. In Mutual Funds took four months climbing fee. We normalized the business, although it is expected that with the reduction of offices have a new impact on customer deposits and loss, but this coexist with our attempt to clients last year took part of their savings back to bring the Bankia.
P. How do you motivate the workforce when you have a redundancy in place which will affect 4,500 employees and 1,100 offices?
"The State may recover the aid, but not in two or three years"
R. We conducted the ERE by land starting in Madrid and Valencia, as well as corporate banking, which accounts for 60% of the business. In these areas already restructuring culminated completely. A current staff is being trained in commercial vision, income statement, addressing modes ... Also, for the May 31 we will have changed the labels of offices and ATMs in these areas, for which we have budgeted 300 million.
P. What is the difference between this network and the BBVA?
R. Bankia is the product of seven boxes and territories are noticeable differences. Network is a melting process and procedures need to homogenize. It may be that missing a commercial basis, but has a large information base on clients that allows us to move quickly on trade issues.
P. Between its objectives is to give more credits?
R. Without a doubt. But individual mortgages there is little demand. We also want to boost consumer lending in the branch network, based on the customers chosen by us according to risk. We share credit risen, albeit from low levels. In business we have the target to increase the credit without fooling around without having to get more supplies. We need to give credit because otherwise we will not be profitable. Although we are giving less than budgeted, we are gaining share. The network had years without credit because there were problems of liquidity and capital. In 2013 one of the objectives is to give credits.
P. For being a public bank is required to give more credit?
"We need to give credits because otherwise we will not be profitable '
R. No, we must give credit because it is good for the profitability of capital, because we need it and it's good for society.
P. Do you feel pressured by the claims of politicians and government demanding that banks give credit?
R. No, do not feel pressured or rather, as if you were in another entity. Independence is total.
P. The rule on refinancing? Slow more credit?
R. I think not. But overall the new regulations for solvent banks are not free: impacts on the quantity and the price of credit.
P. Do you think there is an obsession give more regulatory solvency for banks that can end the business credit?
R. I think there has been a pendulum swing from regulators in Europe, but the regulation is not to blame for the lack of credit. There can be healthy if banks do not give credit, except in the short term, but be healthy banks to finance the economy. In Latin America was recurrent issue when you run out of crisis. A Mexico had a hard time leaving the tequila crisis because banks are not capitalized until 2000, and became a drag on the economy. It can be profitable if you do not meet your function.
P. Do you think that without a second bank recapitalization will not credit?
"Nobody thinks that Bankia is the problem of the financial sector"
R. I can only speak of Bankia. It seems frivolous to talk about what they need competitors. In credit, we must not forget that this is a crisis of indebtedness so that the level of credit has to go down. In Spain it has fallen to the second quarter of 2012 and in 2013 and 2014 will continue to fall. But this fall must support directed credit to rise with future projects. The important thing is to see the flow of credit. My diagnosis is that summer after the credit flow, in this sense, because bank liquidity is comfortable.
P. Why Bankia delinquencies as high, 13%, despite the transfer of assets to the bad bank? Some say that only says the correct data Bankia and other hidden part of the defaulters ...
R. Bankia delinquencies is high, but I do not go up this year. We have groups that provide much delinquency, in particular mortgages have 7.5%. And I do not hide the default sector.
P. Is there any relationship between Bankia and other nationalized Novagalicia and CatalunyaBanc?
R. Bankia is a well-defined project and it is good to continue independently. I do not see a short-term project or a similar holding.
P. Is there collaboration with the FROB for possible crimes?
R. Yes, and we have an open procedure unorthodox operations to detect, even with external researchers.
P. Will there be new cases before the courts?
R. It still reviewing everything and whatever comes out will be the courts.
P. The case Bankia, Rodrigo Rato at the Hearing, and Miguel Blesa, assumes that the two presidents than it was this entity are in court. Is it a great wear?
R. It is good to be in the papers for reasons unrelated to the business and would like to expedite these processes.
P. How did you feel when told that Blesa jailed?
R. It was a surprise to me, but I have to comment on legal issues.
P. How to prepare the network to these scandals?
R. With the greatest possible transparency with employees.
P. Do you keep the idea of distributing dividends in 2015 with a charge to 2014 results?
R. I think it's the logical thing that 2015 will give dividend. We are the managers and we have to create value for owners to have maximum of alternatives to choose from. And they have to be the ones to decide.
P. What would be more profitable to sell the company to someone or in installments on the stock?
R. My opinion is that reason, in the current conditions, is to create value and put actions privatize sections, at first only to institutional investors. A process is not short in time.
P. Do you still think that the state will make money with Bankia?
"The managers of some entities are responsible for this crisis"
R. The State may recover the aid because we have a structure to it. I have the hope that they can be recovered, but not in two or three years. And that will depend on the benefits and how is the market. The important thing is to have a stable and profitable franchise. A year ago the problem of the lack of stability of the financial system was Bankia. A year later, without false modesty, I think nobody thinks this.
P. There has been criticism that there were plans to recapitalize Bankia asking 7,000 million compared to 22.424 million you claimed ...
R. There were two positions: one that said there was to put more money in Bankia because it was impossible to refloat so you should chop. A year later, who said that, and does not say. I say this knowing that we're a long game ahead. And there were other people who said that this could be done with less money. They stress tests and confirmed our figures. Against facts, not valid arguments.
P. Bankia How will the next test?
R. Hope fine because we have a good balance provisioned. While this is so, time is on our side.
P. Are you concerned about the fluctuations in the stock market, especially this week that have led to an investigation by the CNMV?
R. He has been a concern for us. The market is very tight and some people have made operations, from the fundamental point of view, made no sense. That, honestly, managers anything we liked. About what happened on Thursday, we welcome the decision to analyze the CNMV. There needs to be absolute transparency. That said, the share price of Bankia is now in line with domestic competitors. Our challenge is to create value, and so we are, looking at the medium and long term.
P. Was the decision to change auditors supposed to move on?
R. I frame it in corporate governance changes we have made and continue to make. We changed the Council created an independent coordinator and, in this context, we thought it was good change auditors.
P. Do you understand the indignation in the people against the bankers and against particular boxes?
R. I'd like to clarify. Government grants have been part of the boxes. Private banks have not needed support. Do not create stereotypes that are not true. And, secondly, I have always believed that professional management is essential and is what we have done in Bankia.
P. But Bankia, and others, have received billions of aid and still practice evictions. Who rescues the citizens?
"We will not do social work, support corporate responsibility"
R. It says it rescues banks and bankers and not citizens, but Bankia capital injection is not done to preserve the shareholders, unfortunately for them. Bankers is not protected because the tips in this house have changed all and, at least in Bankia and time I've been, without compensation of any kind. Neither the shareholders nor the bankers, or the people who are working in this house, which has a workforce reduction of 6,000 people, with reduced salaries. Who is saved? A depositor. At seven and a half million depositors. So investing in banks. And depositors are people.
P. Faced with evictions, does the public banks have to behave like any other bank?
R. We have to have clear principles, having corporate social responsibility to the surface, but not good to mix things up. We manage the company with professionalism criteria identical to those of any entity. This is consistent with that we do everything possible to prevent people from losing their homes offering all kinds of alternatives. In this issue we have a special feeling, not because public banks, but because it is part of our mission. We have 88,000 mortgage readjustments, around 10% of the portfolio. Right now we're heading to customers, even if they are in default, we are seeing may have some problems and we are approaching them to offer solutions. Besides that, we have made payments in 4000. That said, we have performed first home evictions, but is a very small percentage. These customers are not affected by the mortgage, but by unemployment and recession. The mortgage is an effect, not the cause. And remember that Bankia is the entity that has provided homes, 1,000 in total, the Social Housing Fund.
P. They are also the most evictions had done before ...
R. No good data on that. But if our default rate is higher than the rest, we may have more.
P. Is the payment in kind is the red line that should not be thought to pass on mortgage law reform?
"We have 88,000 mortgage readjustments, 10%"
R. Certainly. If they made retroactive, it could be the case that a customer who has bought a house on the coast now the bank claimed that their investment has fallen by half so that we might charge.
P. What will become of the social work of the boxes?
R. The social work was in the boxes are going to feed the dividends, but since they have no involvement, have become foundations, have their heritage and he will make your social work. We can not replicate that at all because we have shareholders to those who respond. Bankia can not replicate the social work of the boxes or you can ask the replicate.
P. He said he feels independent, but what will happen with the sale of 12% which is in IAG, Iberia matrix, on which there is political pressure to maintain a certain españolidad?
R. IAG will treat with the same criteria as the other: clear advertising and competition, ie we will not give preference to anyone. We will do our best for our shareholders.
P. Qatar Have you approached Bankia or to IAG?
R. With us you have not negotiated. IAG has said no to them.
P. What do you think of the end of Alfredo Saenz or the possibility of it being disabled?
R. In this case there is a legal issue, that I can not enter, and other professional. He was my boss and has been one of the best bankers I've met in my life.
P. Do you think that the Confederation of Savings Banks, CECA, as a lobby for the industry have a future?
R. The ECSC is a bank that provides services. I think he wants to maintain independence from the banking association, the AEB. It covers topics such as banking foundations that come from boxes, that would be unthinkable in the AEB.
P. Their presence in the ECSC, being a public bank? Prevents conditions or negotiating strategy on issues? Are you uncomfortable?
R. Not at all and I think my colleagues see me as a representative of the Government but as a bank manager who seeks the best for its shareholders.
P. What responsibility does the Bank of Spain in this crisis?
R. It is the regulator and supervisor, but in a crisis of indebtedness is the responsibility of managers. But also in that defined monetary policy and interest rates fell, and regulators, including the Bank of Spain. Define the percentages is difficult. Also customers who asked too much money ... but nobody paid as managers of the entities that have failed and have not survived.
P. Then do not coincide with those who say that the fault was the second economic downturn.
R. No, it certainly was a surprise and a negative, but can not be the only aggravating factor. Errors in banking are explained in the upward phase of the bubble and then, in crisis, when managers try to fix them and it's too late. This was a crisis of risk concentration.
P. Have you ever regretted accepting the position?
R. No. I'm totally committed to the project.
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